Richard & Chris - True Friendship

We're back this week with the story of Richard and Chris's friendship. Richard and Chris have been friends for years - through college and into adulthood. They talk about how their friendship has helped them to grow, given them a safe space to be themselves, and given them lots of laughs along the way!

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Mary Liston: Hi, friends. My name is Mary Liston, and welcome to another episode of what's? A Podcast Between Friends. A podcast that seeks to celebrate and learn from real life friendship. I'm so glad that we're back with you this weekend, and I'm bringing you a story of friendship that I really hope that you're going to enjoy as much as I did this week. We are talking to friends, Richard and Chris, who have been friends since before college, through college, and even now after college. These friends were so much fun to talk to. They were super open about how this friendship has helped them to grow and learn, how it has given them the space to be themselves fully, and how much fun they have with one another. So, without further ado, here's my conversation with Chris and Richard. All right. Hi, friends. Welcome. To what's? A podcast between friends. If you guys don't mind, I'd love to have you all introduce yourself.

Richard: All right, fine. I'll go. Beauty before beast. So, my name is Richard Boyette. I'm a lifelong Memphian fortunate enough to be friends with my buddy here, Chris Reid. I am married to my wife, Callie. We have two cute little girls, Emerson and Addison. They keep us very busy. Chris is Addison's godfather. He always calls a guy girl, and she used to be very afraid of him, but now she's one and a half now, and she's definitely warming up to him and just people in general. I work for Nike currently. Chris and I both like to collect shoes. Yeah, that's kind of me. There's a lot more to me than that, but I'll see what Chris does. Maybe I'll add some stuff to my.

Chris: Intro, too, and he's still in my vendor, but I still have some material, I think. My name is Chris Reid, born and raised in Nashville, Tennessee. Poor guy. I moved to Memphis in 2003, and I've been here since Richard and I went to the same college. We have some overlap in terms of how we were at college at the same time, and so I've been here ever since. I work at education. I'm a single man who kind of does what he wants to do around the town. But, yeah, like he said, I'm trying to think of a time how long I've known Richard. I think I've known Richard for about 17 years now, which is weird to say. Actually, I knew Richard before I met Richard because another part of our story is that I was friends with his older sister first. And so he would come around, just try to join us for our sushi nights after his lacrosse practices, and then he would kind of come around and then, sure enough, consider him just as a good friend, as a sister.

Richard: Yeah, I feel like I'm going to be a different level than her.

Chris: Of course you do.

Richard: So I did leave out probably an important detail, I guess, is our ages. So I'm 33. Chris.

Chris: 30. 37. Yes.

Richard: 37 now. So yeah, that explains the overlap for college.

Mary Liston: We're going to dive right in. You guys have told us a little bit of the story of your friendship. Just like I know that you had some overlap in college. I know that you knew Richard's older sister. But can you tell me the story of your friendship? How did you all become as close as you are?

Chris: I think my perspective is so again, I was new of Richard. He would hang out sometimes with his sister Colleen. Let's go and give her a name. Colleen. That's her name. Shout out to Colleen. And she then let me know that Richard was considering going to our college, which is Christian Bows University. And I was excited about that because I know that he was interested in engineering and was known to be an engineering school. And so I was excited about that. And then I just remember him getting him applying and getting accepted. I remember being really excited about him coming along and kind of joining our existing friend group to which I felt he fit in quite well. And so, yeah, sure enough, his freshman year I was a part of Fraternity, and he actually chose not to go on fraternity. He went a different direction because he's rude. But then I think his perspective is he thinks I should lured him into my fraternity.

Richard: But literally what you're supposed to do.

Chris: Hey, you do your thing. And he doesn't like it. Imagine that. So sure enough, he joined opportunity in the spring or Opportunity in the spring joined mine, and then he really did find his way into our friend group. I think that's kind of what solidified it from then on out to where Richard and I would interact outside of his sisters being there. I think that's kind of like from my perspective, that's kind of how it all started.

Richard: It's mostly accurate, I would say.

Chris: Okay.

Richard: The part about my sister, I was in high school and she was at CVU. And so occasionally it's just a short tribe. We were living in East Memphis. So I go down and visit her, and that's when I got introduced to Chris. And Chris is definitely one of those people that he's, like, friends with everybody. Like everybody wants to be Chris's friend. He's just very outgoing. Like you said, his bachelor lifestyle. He's always doing something. He does have his introvert moments, I guess. He's, like, chilling at home, like watching binging TV or reality TV. He's a big survivor. We clash over Survivor because I think watching reality TV is a total waste of time. But unless it's HGTV. I do like HGTV, but I feel like you learn stuff anyway, bring this all back. He's just one of those people that you meet him, you're like you seem like that's like how it started. I met him when I would go to visit my sister, and people knew who he was. And so I get to school, and I very clearly remember this is very cheesy, but I remember my first day, and I'm, like, unloading my car, carrying all my stuff up, and I see Chris there's, like, this little area. It was like a wall around the entrance to this building. It was the liberal arts school or whatever part of the campus, and he was, like, sitting on the wall there. And I remember being like, hey, Chris. Actually, I don't think I did that. I think he called me out, actually, because I'm definitely more of the shy person in this group here. And then, yeah, it was like so that year, his apartment was like it was the apartment on campus that people saw it after. It was right next to volleyball court. And so it was just like the hangout spot. Not just because he was there I don't want to build his ego up too much, but just, like, the location and the people that were there. Just like the central spot that everybody went to. Hang.

Chris: Yeah.

Richard: And so then we went through I went through rush to do fraternity recruitment. There was three main ones on campus. I knew one right away that I wasn't going to do because I just didn't fit in with these people. But then there was the one that Chris was in, and then another one, which I actually knew some people that were currently in it, and then other people that were definitely going to do it, that I went to high school with. And so I was definitely kind of torn. But then I consistently found myself still hanging out in Chris's apartment with that group of people more than the other group. And I give him ****. I've finally gotten over it. But I always want all I needed him to do is, richard, you need to join us. And I'd been like, I'm in. And he never did that. That's literally the point of Rush. Like, what you're supposed to do, you're recruiting people, and he never did that. So I made the mistake. I went this other one, and I knew pretty quickly, I was like, this isn't for me. Everything he else said after that is accurate. I ended up dropping that. And then the spring joined, Christmas returning. And then I'd say, after that, the rest is history. We just kind of had our little clique of friends that we hung out with through college, and he stayed local, and I had two best men. I cheated in my wedding, but Chris was one of the best men for my wedding, and definitely one of my best friends I have, and hopefully we'll.

Chris: Always have at the coastline. Yes, that was a very suit of your chardo. I called them chardo, by the way, so that's going to come out naturally. And so one thing is, I didn't recruit him digital but look where he ended up, where he was supposed to be.

Richard: Shut up.

Chris: Another thing he hasn't pointed out is that when we were choosing, oh, man.

Richard: Do you want to sell this, or do you want me to tell you?

Chris: You have the ritual of big brother. Sure. Yeah. So he was like I think he thought I would be his older big brother.

Richard: This is like a no brainer.

Chris: The lights are out.

Richard: You left out one thing on that is that before you're assigned one, they give you a piece of paper, and they're like, hey, write down three people you would be happy with. That's more required for the spring floods class I was part of. There was only three of us. No, there was four. One guy ended up dropping, but there was three of us that made it all the way through. So it's really small. That's much more required in the fall when you've got, like, a bunch of people going through and there might be one person, several people want them to be their big brother, so you have to prioritize them. So I was like, there's no way. It wasn't even a thought that Chris wouldn't be my big brother. I thought it was just like, done deal. So I wrote his name on there three times, and I just didn't care about anybody else. And we go into the ceremony where they let you know, and you're standing I can't remember exactly how it is, but you're standing facing one direction, and your big brother comes up behind you and puts their hand on your shoulder or something like that, and they say, like, your big brother is so and so. I remember that moment, and they've been like, your big brother is and they said a name that wasn't Chris. And I was in this person I didn't even know them. I was like, what the hell? I quit. This ain't cool. But it turned out to be great that the person actually became my big brother. He was only a year older than me, so it worked out well because he was actually in school longer than Chris would have been. And we became really close friends too, again.

Chris: But I knew what I was doing.

Richard: I've never forgiven him for it. No, he did.

Chris: I knew what I was doing.

Richard: He was being selfish.

Chris: The pattern.

Mary Liston: Very nice. Very nice. So you've talked a lot about your friendship in college. How has your friends friendship changed over time? Obviously, college life to non college life looks different. But even more broadly, how has your friendship changed over time?

Richard: The easiest answer is I think it's just gotten a lot deeper over the years. Like, it was just more superficial back then playing sports or video games or going out to eat, whatever, doing things that poor college students do. So, like, on a superficial level, it's cool that now we have real jobs and we can do things that are, like, more fun that you can't do in college. That's one thing. But I think one thing that I really appreciate about my friendship with Chris is I feel like we've done a good job, especially with Chris, but keeping each other active too. I think sport is a big part of both of our lives, so over the years, we've done a ton of different pick up leagues and things like that, because I think that bonding as part of a team is something that's really important in friendships, too. So that's something I've really appreciated, but we might get to it. But Chris and I have also had a lot of. Like I don't know if marquis is the right term. But these specific moments in time where we've really needed each other and leaned on each other to get through hard times and talk about life and things like that. That's something that post college. And just as years have gone. It has happened more frequently. And it's just unspoken stuff that you just like you're there for each other when you need each other most. And also another thing that I think has really shaped part of who we are today and just our still ongoing friend group is chris was early on involved as a camp counselor at this place called Camp Air Track in Arkansas, and he recruited a bunch of people that we went to college with and just other friends to come work there. And so I spent two summers there, and a lot of our core friends group are people that went through that experience with us and worked there. And that's very truck. I feel like also where Chris and I had our first real, the one that stands out to me more than one of those moments where we were, like, really connecting in there for each other when he was going through something, and I think he wanted me to just leave him alone. And I was just that pest wouldn't go away. I was like, I knew that something was up with him and wanted to talk about it. So it's moments like that, I think, that really stick out in my mind.

Chris: That's good. I think with Chardo and I, it's a multifaceted relationship, so we start off with the college piece and fraternity. I want to make it abundantly clear that Chardo and I are not like some typical frat dudes. It's been a long time in that frat conversation. But I think another part of our friendship is whether it be something that's obvious or something that kind of goes in the background is our faith life as he grew up Catholic and is still Catholic, and I am Catholic and grew up Catholic. And so that aspect of it then camp life they talked about, like, the hobbies and things like that. I think the evolution of our friendship really goes toward this idea of at some point with certain friendships. Like, you need a certain medium to have that experience, right? You need whether it be a spike ball or you need a fraternity event or video games, whatever it is. These are all things that he and I partake in. But also, I think that we've evolved the sense where those things can literally go away. And it's just he and I, and it's still there, even if there's nothing. And he was just silent and I was silent. It wouldn't be like, oh, this is awkward. It's just like, oh, here we are. So I think that because we've been able to maintain our friendship and grow our friendship over the years, all the other stuff is kind of like extra and we don't necessarily need those things. It's almost kind of an effortless thing.

Richard: Another important detail, I think, that's been left out is that I'm an engineer and Chris is a psychology major. So he's much better at work than I am, just in general. Cause that was much more eloquently put than anything I said, Chris. So thank you for that.

Chris: But your stuff is good too.

Richard: It made me think of something. I would say that it's a similar thing that I have with my marriage, I think, because I consider someone that you're like, ultimately someone that you're married to is like another best friend, someone you just have that next level with. And one thing you said that really resonated with me is sitting. Like, we don't have to be actively we like being in each other's presence and just like, chilling. And I think that's not super common. I guess you don't have that with lots of people. I have like, a handful of people in my life that are like that. So I think that's pretty special.

Mary Liston: My question is, obviously when friendship grows in a college setting, there's a lot of just like, natural space and time for friendship. And then when you get out into the real world, there's a lot less natural space and time for hanging out and being friends because we have jobs and stuff. So talk to me about how you found space and time in your lives to prioritize this friendship and what that looks like for you all.

Chris: I think because I was thinking about the evolution of our friendship and I really do feel like convenience and accessibility were things that made my relationship with Chardo different than other. Again, he talked about a lot of pockets of friends. However, Richard is one of the few that actually stayed in Memphis, right? And so I had friends that moved to Lafayette or Georgia or it was just like one point Boston across to a different country. All these things happen to where, like, amid all the dust of people leaving, there remains charred up there. He is not in that very good staple of a person who's like, hey, it's always there. And so when it comes to my opinion when it comes to finding time. It was never a struggle really. Again, our interests align. A lot of our friend groups align. He lives literally five minutes away from me to this day. I think there are times where I might drift away. Drift away meaning like I'm doing other things or he's doing other things. But then it's kind of like he does a rigid job of being like, hey, what are you doing? Like he's just like calling randomly and be like, I've seen you forever. And then that's a kind of reminder. Yeah, we need to hang out soon enough. We have our typical like we have trivia every Wednesday. That makes it easier. We have again like just friend get togethers that people are doing certain events. It kind of makes it easy for me in my opinion. It doesn't seem that hard. I'm about you chart of it.

Richard: Yeah, what you said is true. I think that I mentioned my big brother earlier, the person we ended up becoming really close and he's from Rhodes and he ended up after college back. That was really tough for me. We're still friends and we probably talk on the phone every month or two months or something like that.

Chris: Also shout out to Ryan Nicolini. I'm not really saying nothing is his name.

Richard: Yeah, I don't know. We're being very cryptic on a lot of things, not saying names of things. I don't want information, whatever. Brian, that's definitely been a part of it. And my first job out of school I moved away a little bit. I had a consulting job and so for about two and a half years. There are six months I was in St. Louis, Missouri and then the other two years I was basically almost always on the road and it was a really tough part of my life. I just was going through it. Then from a pure proximity standpoint, things were harder that we didn't see each other more. But I feel like we always stayed connected all that time. Like Chris was definitely somebody I leaned on. And this is connecting to my other point because I think one thing that is kind of going back to the point around just enjoying each other's presence or that level of connection with somebody is I think something that's not super uncommon with close friends, at least in my opinion, maybe it's not. You can let us know if this is common or not. It's like picking on each other. That's like kind of a trip you hear people will say if I wasn't mean to you, that means I don't like you, or something like that, like that type of thing. And if you ask any of our mutual friends that's something that if you ask them about our mind and Chris's friendship, they would 100% say is that we have this just constant banter and picking on each other and just doing goofy stuff. And I think that Chris, he's definitely like a brother to me. And I view that. And I've never had a brother. I have an older sister, as they talked about. But yeah, I kind of view him as the brother I never had. Because I view that interaction that we do, the banter that we get through, it feels a lot like sibling type banter. Like something that I don't do with a lot of my other friends. And I've never doubted that. I don't know that we've ever gotten into a real fight where we're actually mad at each other. Maybe we have a couple of times. Yeah, okay. That's a lot. We have definitely done that a couple of times. But generally when we do this thing, it's just like 2 seconds later. Nothing ever happens. We're just like messing with each other. So I think that was another unique thing.

Chris: Let me build on that too. I'm an only child and so please I feel like when it comes to friendships, I always been very quick. Is that true? I've been very urgent. To clarify, this was like a siblinghood or not, right? And so I see, definitely when it comes to Richard, I consider him one of one of my brothers. And I say one of my brothers because, again, I was the only child I had to label. She two of those brothers or sisters. And so another thing about the whole teasing thing is I give him more of a hard time than he gives me a hard time. But he admits to it and people are to the point where, like, Chris, you are mean to Richard. There's a phrase called Poor Richard which has historical significance. But also just with Richard in our relationship, there's actually a song by what's his name, Mayor Hawthorne called Poor Richard. It reminds me of him in a nice relationship because I do give him a hard time. Whether it be me making fun of the way he says something or what he's wearing in the moment, or I'll do like I'll nag at him a little bit. Like, I'll put my finger in his ear and then I'll pick his nose.

Richard: And you can edit that part out.

Chris: Yeah, I'll put my finger between his calf and his knee.

Richard: I hate that.

Chris: Just stop.

Richard: My knee armpit?

Chris: Yes, your knee. Armpit. And so he'll get really upset about that. But it's just part of our relationship. That's how I express love. I'm glad that he realizes that. So I'm not giving him a hard time. There might be something wrong.

Richard: I don't consider that, like, a unique thing to you. And I don't know if, like, something that I had in me or if it's something that I've learned from you, but I do that with my other friends. Like similar type of stuff, not at the same level. Like, I'm not sticking my finger in people's knee arms, but just picking on people. I feel like, that's just a common thing. And to be clear, I don't want it to sound like Chris abuses me. I do egg them on, like, instigate things. So I'm not totally in the city either. I will admit that you talked a.

Mary Liston: Little bit about conflict. You said you don't really think you've had conflict. Then you said maybe you do. This is something that I feel like a lot of people that I've interviewed say. Like, I'll ask them about conflict, and they'll be like, we don't have any conflict. And I'm like, cool. And then, like, five minutes later, they're like, Actually, hold on. I have a couple of things I need to get off my test. So with that in mind, can you all talk about what role conflict plays in your friendship?

Chris: I'll be happy to.

Mary Liston: You've been waiting for this moment.

Chris: I have been. Things off my chest. No, I think, in my opinion, richard and I have had some sparse of, like, genuine conflict. There was a day it was years ago too. I don't know what we're talking about, Richard, but I remember being in my room, like, so angry. Something that had happened, or you said, when is this?

Richard: Is this, like, college or post college?

Chris: I would say after college. I'll say post college, but I remember being so angry. We're going back and forth. I can't remember what the topic was about, which is evident how it works with our friendships. It's not like the following cabin of grievances or things that he's done that I hold against them. Yeah. In the moment, I feel no problem expressing those with him. And we'll go back and forth because Richard and I are very different. And then I think also we do kind of labor in terms of trying to convince one another that they are right, but then at some point, we just kind of give up. From my perspective, that's usually when I.

Richard: Say, you're an idiot.

Chris: Yeah. Then he walks away. He's like, Are you like, chris, listen, I'm not good at arguing. Like, that's not what I do.

Richard: Okay, you do all that, but I'm.

Chris: Not good at that. Okay.

Richard: Back to the thing about Chris being good with words. It may not.

Chris: I guess, from my perspective, there seems to be, like, a no hold barred, like, being able to express things, and of course, in a respectful way, but also not really shielding how it makes each other feel. I think that's really genuine and important to me, especially with our relationship. That kind of is a stand out feature between Charter and I don't have.

Richard: A whole lot to add to that. One thing I'll add, not to take away anything from what he said, but I feel like that's a specific trait that I have, is I don't like harboring bad feelings towards people, especially if it's someone that's important to me. I like to work through conflict. I'm not just going to seek out conflict to holy garage and be better towards each other. I like resolving those things, and I would say that's not unique to Chris. That's just, like, with everyone in my life. And so I feel like I have a pretty long runway of being able to work through things with people, and then I'm not just going to get to a point where someone and I have butted heads, and then we've run down that runway halfway, and then I'm just going to leave it there. I try to at some point recognize that, like, hey, that said, the runway distance is finite. So that doesn't mean that I always work things out with everybody. There are people that are on my excuse me, but my **** list. Once you get to a certain point, you're gone forever. Sure, but that's really hard to do. But yeah, I agree with everything what Chris said. It's funny because I was going to say the same thing that you said about, like, I definitely remember times where I was actually mad at you about something that has definitely happened many times, but I can't think of a single example of what I was mad about, which I think goes to say that we just get over stuff. It's, like, not that big of a deal.

Chris: Yeah, in the moment it's a big deal. Right. It's a real big deal.

Richard: Right.

Chris: But then it kind of moves on.

Mary Liston: Yes, I agree. I feel like that speaks a lot about you all's friendship and, like, your willingness not to shy away from in that moment. Like, the feeling of, like, oh, I'm mad at you right now, but the fact that you can't remember why speaks to you're able to just move past it. And at the end of the day, it's not like an ultimate thing.

Richard: Right. I think for me, it goes back to the sibling thing for the most part. Like, siblings are always can be at each other's throats about a lot of things, but at the end of the day, they're family and they get over things, and it's not awkward. After that, I'll get back to normal and it's fine.

Mary Liston: Yeah, for sure. I think that friendship can teach us a lot about ourselves and about the world and about relationships. What has this specific friendship taught you?

Chris: Such a great question.

Richard: Thank you. First, can I throw out my super easy answer to this?

Chris: Please? Go for it.

Richard: I almost feel a little silly bringing this up. Chris is black and I am white. Chris is my only very close black friend, so I feel very comfortable talking to him about specific things. And I think the last several years have been a really good example for this is, like, I feel very comfortable talking to Chris about just, like, very serious, like, life issues and social justice things and things like that. We have another very close friend, David, who, like, he. And I, or the three of us kind of have like a triangle of just keeping up on life. And I feel like from that standpoint, chris has had the patience to allow me to ask lots of ignorant questions over the years of just hearing about his experience for different things, whether it was everything that's happened in the last couple of years or just things before that. I don't know if you can think of anything very specific, but I feel like I've been very candid about just being like, hey, let's just so for me, that's like one thing that really you've taught me a ton of stuff, lots of big words, but that's one thing that definitely sticks out is very, I think, unique about our friendship. It's just like how openly we talk about everything in life. It doesn't have to be race related things, but just anything in general. I feel very comfortable talking to you about, like, what are your thoughts on this thing?

Chris: I remember we would go on a road trip and we would have our friends in the car and then he would say, like, hey Chris, can I ask you a black question? What class are you taking?

Richard: Oh, no, it was like African American religion, something rather. Yeah, I kind of remember what you're talking about now.

Chris: And he's had a lot of questions I didn't feel safe asking anybody else. Right. And the people in the car, I imagined them to be somewhat uncomfortable with me answering these questions, but I did it anyway. And again, I feel like the investment was there to the where that withdrawal was not a big deal. Right. And so we would go back and forth and talk about these things. What's funny about it is that little did he know that that would become the niche I hate to say that word, but the very niche or appropriate thing to do, right? Especially with the whole George Floyd and Brianna Taylor, it became like that's a responsible thing to do is ask other people, regardless of their gender, color, whatever it is, their perspective and glean from that perspective. Right. It actually comes up later, potentially, but that's something I've learned. He likes to learn, right, whether it be a new method in his job or something that's going around the house in terms of DIY, but also that he likes to learn about his world in general. He's a constant learner. And so just to address that piece of him asking questions, especially around race or even back in the day religion, we had some really great conversations around faith as well. I respect that a lot. And in turn, I learn from the answers that I give and the emotions and the feelings I have when I share those with him as well. I think another thing that I've learned from him is actually about myself. He hinted at it earlier, but in terms of vulnerability, I used to be a school counselor back in the day. In education, I'm kind of like the social emotional guy, right. But I am not as vulnerable as I think I am, and I don't like when I'm not doing okay. I don't want people to know that I'm not doing okay. Right. But there was a time where it was post college. I couldn't find a job. A whole bunch of stuff were growing up, friends were moving. My whole world was kind of crumbling down in my mind. It was a catastrophe that's catastrophizing all these things. And I was very guarded. I was very, like, face value or recluse? And then Charda was like, hey, what's going on? I'm like, I'm fine. He's like, no, you're not. I'm like, no, I really am. He goes like, ten minutes later, chris, what's wrong? Literally nothing's wrong with me, but literally everything was wrong with me. Right. I've learned that I am very choosy about my vulnerabilities, but people like Richard helped me. I think I have identified safe spaces that I'm able to show that I'm not at the top of my game now that I was setting for this, I promise you I wasn't. But I've been reading a lot about Stoicism, and there's a quote that actually talked to him that sounds really, like, philosophical. I promise you I'm not that guy.

Richard: This is the guy who spent hours on it watching Survivor, part of his.

Chris: Book, part of it, and Instagram feed, I promise you. But it was need for circumstance will show you true friendship or detect enemies. Right. And so I've learned that within true friendships and definitely with Chardo, that I can be my best self. And there's no need to be explanation for that. He's just not firing at all cylinders right now, and therefore me expressing that gives them the ability to help out. I think I had a wall up there that because I wasn't able to express those things, people couldn't help. And so I'm still working on that one. But that's something I don't think Richard really understands, that he was very impactful and helping with is this idea of being vulnerable for the sake of people that you love and trust to actually help you as they should because they're friends.

Richard: I'm glad you brought that up. Vulnerability, because this has been something I think I've discovered about myself probably in just the last year. Is it like how different you and I are on that front? I think vulnerability is, like, a huge ingredient in building trust with people. And I think Chris and I are so far apart on that. You just said that. But I am overly trusting, and I love being vulnerable and having real talk with people, probably to a fault, somewhat like you probably shouldn't trust this person and tell them these things. So I think that's another thing that's been great about our friendship is that we almost balance each other out with that. Like, I'm overrivving one direction and Chris is over revving way, the other direction.

Chris: And I will say there's so many stories that we won't go into because I want embarrassment too much, where he will come to me in a vulnerable state and I will support him with that. But also that big brother, like, teasing will happen too. It's like almost simultaneous. Let me live on you, but also let me post that a little bit and then you'll be like, okay, that's not funny. But you're right, it's not funny. But it is kind of funny. It's just kind of like I've noticed that too. Time and time again, Richard has come with me with vulnerability after vulnerability after vulnerability, and I'm honored to receive that right. I can't necessarily say the same thing for him because it's hard for me to actually go there, but I have come to my vulnerabilities. But his frequency and his willingness to do so is pretty profound and it really means a lot to me. I don't think he knows that. It really does.

Richard: One thing I wanted to add, but I didn't get to because he kept talking about this stuff.

Chris: I wish this podcast to see the faces that I'm making.

Richard: Jumping back to how we've just like you're right. I do like learning and how we've just had so many conversations just about life in general. I would say that because of that one thing that I think I've really gained from this friendship and hopefully you have some to some extent too, is that Chris here. I mean, he's a big word, but in life, I think too many people just think that everything's like a dichotomy. It's like it's this way or it's that way. Like it's right or wrong, it's black or white. And I think that what I've learned through all my years of having these conversations with Chris is that is the point that we're supposed to have. This is probably going deeper, but not friendships, but just like at a social community, we're supposed to have conversations about things and discuss things and compromise. We don't see a lot of that in our society today. It's just like you see it. The clearest example is the political environment. It's just like it's either this or you're this side or this side. Kristin I feel like I had a lot of really deep conversations about just different things. And it's never not that we know the answer to, we don't know the answer to anything. I want to be very clear on that. But I think I've learned so much from just, like, discussing things and talking through them and not just taking something someone else's saying and adopting that this is the way it is. We try to form our own perspective on.

Mary Liston: In order to do that in a way that is safe, in a safe environment that is open to or that is like a safe place for vulnerability and sharing and things like that. You have to have that trust. So the fact that you guys have this deep trust allows for these conversations to happen where you're able to say, like, oh, wait, it's not like polar opposite side. Like, there's a middle ground, there's gray area here that we can explore together, which is really cool. Okay. Is there something that I should be asking about your friendship? That because I don't know you all super well. I don't know to ask. Is there something that you would like to share about that I haven't given you the opportunity to yet share about?

Richard: This isn't maybe answering that. There's not answering it. One thing I did want to add to it was one of the very first questions, being quite frank, about why our friendship still works as well as it does. Like Chris mentioned, where we live and all of that stuff. One thing that definitely makes it easier is he doesn't have kids. His schedule is just super flexible. It works out well. So that when I am free to do things. A lot of times he is sometimes he's not. But a friend of mine that have kids and stuff.

Mary Liston: Yeah, definitely.

Chris: Honestly, I can't think of anything that we haven't really touched on. I think that the intricacies of one his age versus mine. Right. And then us being and he and I being of different racial backgrounds, and then also even like, him being from Memphis and from Nashville.

Richard: Yeah, we haven't hit on that. We've had a lot of fights over Memphis and Nashville. That's his number one thing he loves to dig at me is, like, the whole of that it's not us, but there's the ongoing movies for battle, and people that are from Nashville have their noses up there like Chris and think that they're better than everyone. And the funny thing is, Chris is more of a mentor now than he is Nashville, whatever the hell they're called. Nobody cares what they're called. But I mean, I think you lived here longer. Yeah, cause you moved here when you were 18, and you're 37 now, so you have officially lived in this is longer than you lived in Nashville. Just saying.

Chris: For some reason, there is a rivalry between I'm doing quotes. Ladies and gentlemen listening.

Richard: He also has his nose in the ear right now. BEATSVILLE people from Nashville's. Favorite thing to do is to pretend that there's no, like, we don't even bother thinking about people from nursing. What you're good for that they're all idiots.

Chris: Sorry, people from Nashville, I got your back. Don't worry.

Richard: If you're from Nashville, you probably suck.

Chris: Why do people from Nashville feel so reluctant to come to Mexico? I don't know what it is. Goodness, no. But I think that's something I always tease them at. But I think that's just, like, kind of ebony and ivory. We're, like, literally on two different sizes of the spectrum, but we find a way to meet in the middle. And so that's kind of an ongoing analogy that you could use to get titled.

Richard: She just called us Ebony and Ivory.

Chris: Too bad that's taken by Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder.

Richard: Sorry, sounds made up.

Mary Liston: All right, you all have been talking up a big game about these stories that you all have, so I'm curious. Is there a moment or a story that you feel like really encapsulates your friendship that you'd be willing to share? Or just a story or a moment that you really enjoy about your friendship? That works too?

Richard: This one's so stupid. The old Navy one is like that's. Like what?

Chris: That's so random.

Richard: But I feel like I don't know. It's funny. I feel like we talk about it a lot, but this is going to be terrible for a podcast, too.

Chris: Maybe not. So maybe not.

Richard: People think we're really weird. More weird than we are, I guess. How do I describe this? We do this thing. I can't do this.

Chris: Yes, you can. Just do it.

Richard: I can't explain it in a way that makes any sense, but one of the many weird things that we do is this high pitch, like squealy. It's like a sexual thing in public just to make people feel uncomfortable. Yeah, like, out in public, and people turn around and be like, what the hell is we think it's hilarious. This is years ago. I mean, at least ten years ago, we were at Old Navy, like, the week of Halloween, randomly, just shopping with a couple of people, and they had this thing going on. They said if you scream at checkout because Halloween, you get 10% off thinking that people would be like something like that. And I had this crowded Old Navy checking out, and all of a sudden we blurred out. It's a really stupid story, but I feel like, oh, yeah, it's like a big part of our life, and that one sticks out for me. The reason we keep bringing it up is because we have another friend of ours who he's just, like, so reserved, like, doesn't want attention, hates being embarrassed, like, all of those things. And so he went to check out, and they said that to him. He's like, no, I'm good.

Chris: We yell for him.

Richard: Yeah, we're like, yell for him. So we did our thing again for him. Yeah, that's my terrible.

Chris: Nestle was in that room, too.

Richard: There's so many stories, Chris. You can come up with a better story than that.

Chris: I can't believe you told that story. But we'll commit it. I think Richard, he finds himself in predicaments, right? And sometimes he's clumsy. He also likes to show that he's, like, good at something or whatever. Or better than me. I don't okay, so there's one time where he we're working at camp, and I was sitting here minding my own.

Richard: Business, talking another story about Chris after this.

Chris: And then Richard says, hey, Chris. I was like, yes, Richard. He goes, I bet you can't do a 360 dump. And I was like, yeah, I bet she can't either. Come on, you even try.

Richard: I'm like, oh, no, this isn't I think Chris loves to leave out important details and stories and stuff. Okay, that it was like a six foot goal.

Chris: Okay, there was a six foot goal, eight foot goal, whatever. Do I want to do one? I sure don't. I'm cool. I'm showing. And so sure enough, he said, I want to do it. What Richard did is he wanted to get some more air on his jump, so he put a little like what was that, Richard?

Richard: It was like a so, first of all, it was a wooden tag. No, I did the 360 dunk and then I was like, I want to try to dunk on the real goal, the ten foot goal. So I got a four x four. Just wouldn't both put it on the ground because I just needed that little bit of lift.

Chris: So he felt so good about 368 foot goal that he wanted some more gold stars. So he got that four x four and decided to take off running off of the four x four. We'll start running and then jumping on the four by four. And then he would have to launch him space Jam style, right to that ten foot goal. Not even ten foot. It was like ten and a half foot. And then sure enough, my dude came up short and he met the pavement.

Richard: With his knees and your hand literally.

Chris: Skinny in gone and hands wrapped for weeks. And I couldn't help but to laugh. I would tell people about oh, do you hear what ed Richard? He did 360. That's just how it went. There's so many stories like that. One more.

Richard: Hold on, I get my rebuttal. So as I was saying, that story is a great example. This is another unique thing about our friendship is Chris loves he could write for the National Enquirer or something like that. He just loves to add little details. And I'll give it to him, it makes the story better. But he just adds these things like, that didn't happen. That's not how that happened.

Chris: Okay? And this is where he gets his story. So this is my favorite stories. So many. So we were driving this college, we're driving to a basketball game, Hardin University. It was a big rivalry with us. We're driving, and sure enough, my dude, this is the time of Sarah Burrellis love song. My guy, he is Gemini while driving. He's not going to rank you. He's just in it, right? And so sure enough, we're kind of vibing it's. Me, my friend David, and then Anne in the back. We're just vibing to it. And sure enough, he's so into the song of cerebralis that there's a cop that passes him and my dude's speeding. Richard speeding.

Richard: Small town Arkansas. So, like, 1 mile over speeding, basically.

Chris: And he was like, **** it. That's what he said. He was like, please don't turn around. Please don't turn around. Please don't turn around. And so they're not sure enough, the cop said, and turn around and get right behind Richard. So Richard is like, breathe, breathe. And boom. Like, lights go on, and he's like, oh, my God. So he pulls over, and then sure enough, he pulls over on the right side, and so the officer doesn't want to walk in traffic, so he walks onto the passenger side. So here I am in the passenger seat, standing very still. And so then he comes to the passenger seat, knocks on the window. He said, you know, I pulled you over. He was like, yes, sir, I was speaking. And he goes, I need your license registration. And so Richard says, I have my license, but on my registration. And he was like, the registration that you get when you get your car tax, sir, you don't have that. He goes and this is what he denys saying this. I have two other people, three versus one. He goes, I mean, I've heard that in movies, but I've never seen somebody the cop was just like, just give me your proof of insurance, please. Thank you. He's walked off me. David and and are like, okay, well, there does that not make any game? But sure enough, officer McNice over here said, okay, go ahead with your snide comment ticket. He sure did, but he should have took you in for your smart alec remark.

Richard: Also, important fact none of the three people in the car helped me pay for the speed I was shuttling you to Arkansas.

Chris: Cool. Also, I think Sarah Verde should be able to pay for that money because it's her fault, technically. So he denies that story.

Mary Liston: Got you.

Chris: That definitely happened. But that's kind of like when I think of our friendship, that's kind of again, me give them a hard time, but it was all the most profound memories that I can remember back in those days.

Mary Liston: All right, this is the final question. My question for you is, what do you admire most about your friend? Or some people have been taking issue with me saying the most. So what is something you admire a lot about your friend?

Chris: I feel like chardo is a person that I can turn to in any time of need. Right. I've never figured out what my exact love language is. I don't know if it's acts of service. I don't know if it's words of affirmation. I don't know if it's doing tasks for that person. But literally, Richard does all those things for me, and it means a lot. He's a very selfless person, and I feel like he is a person that genuinely wants me to tell him that. Again, I went to a hard time. Let's talk about or. He wants me to ask him to buy these shoes that I really always wanted. Right. In my mind, she has a burden. I don't ever want to be a burden to anybody. That's kind of ongoing, that vulnerability piece is there. Right. But Richard sees that as his opportunity to express that love. I think what I admire about him the most is the love that he gives me. But then I think about the love that he gives his family too. Especially. I get a lot of bit of that, but I feel like that family gets a lot of bit of that. I think I can kind of sit back and watch that and really admire that as him as a family man. That's something that I always said that I think I gave a speech at your wedding. I'm pretty sure I did. I might make that memory yet, but I remember being like, that's one story.

Richard: You did not make it.

Chris: Richard is going to be an extremely amazing father, no doubt about it. And he is. I just admire that. The person he's turned into as a person who's kind of had this older brother looking at him as he grows older and comes into himself, I feel like he's trying to be a very impressive person. He has a long way to go, but he's definitely a very impressive person. Yeah, I appreciate him.

Richard: Thanks. I agree with some of those things. So for Chris, I don't know if this is like what I admire or more like what I appreciate, but I think that there are very few, like, maybe three in my life, period 100% be myself through and through, around, like I said, not necessarily admire, but I appreciate that, and I don't know why that is necessarily. I think everybody is reserved in different settings for different reasons about hiding. Not necessarily hiding, but not fully expressing themselves in different ways. And I feel no need to do that with those three people, for sure. I'm including my parents in that. That's very freeing. And I think it's helped me develop a lot as a person and learn a lot about myself. I feel very selfish I'm making this answer all about myself instead of Chris. But I guess my point is that I think Chris says he's like a people shaver. I think he's just, like, an amazing leader. And that's, like, evident so many different ways. The leader within our friends circle, he's a leader in his profession, and I think he's just like an amazing people developer in helping people be the best versions of themselves. And so I think that, combined with how comfortable I am being around him, this is like, help me develop a person. I'm hopeful that I've rubbed off on a little bit too, and some things here and there, but yeah, I don't know if that makes any sense at all, but it's just super powerful to me and something that I'm pretty grateful for a bigger reason why I want to keep them in my life for as long as I can.

Chris: Thanks, buddy.

Mary Liston: Absolutely awesome. Well, thank you all so much for your willingness to be on the podcast and for sharing, and I really enjoyed getting to learn about you all's friendship. So thank you. I really enjoyed getting to know Chris and Richard during this conversation. It was really interesting to hear about how they have shown up for one another, how their friendship has remained strong outside of college, and how they have continued to keep each other laughing and growing at the same time. What's? A podcast between friends? Drops new episodes every other Friday. Wherever you get your podcasts, you can follow what's a Podcast Between Friends? On Instagram. At what's? A podcast between friends. You can also email us at whatsappodcastbetween friends@gmail.com. Please rate us, review us on all of your podcasting apps, tell a friend about the episodes that you've really enjoyed, and if you would like to be on the show or you know someone who should be on the show, please reach out to us and let us know so that we can get in contact with you and have you on an episode. We will see you in two weeks. Until then, enjoy your friendship and we will see you next time. Bye, friends.