Mary Liston: Hi, friends. Welcome to what's? A podcast between friends, a podcast that seeks to celebrate and learn from real life friendship. My name is Mary Liston, and welcome back to the show. We've been on a hiatus for the past few weeks because I am an educator, and the school year has just started back up, so we took a few weeks off so I could get my feet underneath me for this school year. But we are back and better than ever. I'm so excited to share with you the conversation that I had with Caitlin and Ashton about their friendship. They have truly been through it all together and were so willing to share. I really enjoyed their conversation, and I hope that you do too. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Caitlin and Ashton. We're going to start out with just both of you introducing yourselves, if you don't mind.
Kaitlin: My name is Katie. That's how Ashton knows me in professional world. I go by Kaitlin now, but I live in Chicago, Illinois now, and Ashton and I have been friends for almost ten years.
Ashton: Yes. And I'm Ashton and I live in Dublin, Ireland. I'm originally from Michigan, but I've been living here for two years tomorrow. Congratulations. Yeah, but I met Katie in college. That's how we know each other for almost ten years now.
Mary Liston: Awesome. Well, that actually jumps perfectly into my first question, which is, can you tell us the story of your friendship? So you met in college. Tell us how that kind of came to be.
Kaitlin: Yeah, I think it was completely by chance. We went to Michigan State University, and you get to pick a roommate before you go in if you want to, and they have the whole Facebook groups you can join and just find somebody that you want to live with freshman year. So Ashley and I actually chose somebody else. We both show somebody else, and then we ended up in a four person dorm. Yeah, that's how we originally met in 2013.
Ashton: Totally random. We also didn't expect, I think, either getting put into a quadrant, and actually, in the beginning, there was five people because there's so many people that were going to MSU that year. So it's a packed house.
Mary Liston: Wow. Okay, so there are five of you in this quad space. Tell me about how the two of you connected out of the larger group.
Ashton: I guess because we did initially go in with other people, it was kind of at first, you stick to your buddy you kind of went in with, but it wasn't long at all until there's crossover, I feel like. And we'd always be going out every night together and going to the cafeteria together and all that kind of stuff.
Kaitlin: I almost feel like Ash and I had the same kind of schedule on together, so it was just natural. Like, we'd wake up at the same time and go to the cafeteria together, go to classes. I was a nursing major at the time, which was a major mistake on my behalf. And Ashton helped me a lot with my classes too, because I didn't know anything with human anatomy and that's Ashton like bread and butter.
Mary Liston: Very cool. So, Ashton, were you also a nursing major at the time?
Ashton: No, I was human bio, which is, like, within premed, did not end up going to med school, but I stayed in that major my whole time.
Mary Liston: Got you. Very cool. Yeah. It's always nice at school when you find someone who has a matching schedule because you just can kind of, like, team up and be like, all right, this is the plan. Here's what we're going to do, and we're going to make it work. Very fun. So did you all stay in that quad your whole school career, or what does that look like throughout the rest of your school career?
Kaitlin: Yeah, sophomore year, I lived with one of our freshmen, your roommates, and then one of our friends that we made also that lived on our floor. But then, Ashley, you want to talk about your sophomore year too?
Ashton: Yeah. And I was in a separate apartment with a friend that I had from high school, but literally every weekend I was at Katie.
Kaitlin: We shared my bedroom sophomore year.
Mary Liston: Oh, very fun.
Kaitlin: But it was great. And then junior and senior year, we ended up living together. So that's really to where we got, like, the bulk of our time. I don't even want to say that because we got so much time of friendship together.
Mary Liston: That's very cool. So it worked out that you guys kind of had this shared living experience at the beginning because then you knew that you were compatible enough to live together moving forward, because I feel like I have some friends who I love dearly, but I know mentally we would never be good roommates. So it's cool that you guys have that experience at first. So you knew later on, like, oh, yeah, we could work together and live together. That would be really great. Once college ends, I feel like there's kind of this turning point in friendship where you kind of have to make a conscious decision to continue being friends because you have to work a little bit harder at it if you're not going to be in the same space anymore. Can you talk to me about how your friendship progressed, moving from a college setting to the real world?
Ashton: We definitely struggled with that, I think, for sure, because after college, I moved to Scotland, where I did my masters. So off the bat, right away, we're separated by an ocean after spending the last four years, like, side by side. So I think both of us really struggled and didn't know how to go about that change as far as it's so different when you don't have the person there right next to you all the time and you actually have to be like, oh yeah, I should probably text or call. And time differences don't make that easy either and everything. So we definitely weren't great at the start, but by now we definitely, I think, has progressed and worked on our communication skills a lot because we did struggle with it.
Mary Liston: Yeah, for sure.
Kaitlin: Yeah. And I think it was like trying to figure ourselves out too. Obviously you're a different person. After college and we both moved to big cities, I moved to Chicago right away. Ashley moved as well. And so it was like, I can't tell her the little day by day, like she doesn't need to know what time I woke up today, where before those were the things that you just knew about each other.
Mary Liston: Yeah, definitely. Can you talk a little bit about because I'm someone who I struggle with long distance friendships. I'm not always the best at keeping up and doing the communication thing. Can you talk a little bit about what things you were able to work on and what things helped you through that tough period?
Kaitlin: Yeah, I think I'm a very blunt human being, which is good and bad at times. I, like full blown would be like, Ashton, what the heck is going on? Talk to me. Where I almost feel like Ashton are very opposite, but the same too. I'm a very big extrovert. Action is more of an introvert. And so it was just more of a conscious decision of both of us calling each other out on each other's ****. Being like, you're being a crappy friend right now and vice versa.
Mary Liston: Yeah.
Ashton: And not taking anything to you personally because we know each other's best friends. We're never going to say anything that's malicious or vicious towards one another. It's just we love each other. So just talk like you need to put in that effort.
Mary Liston: Yeah, absolutely. And it sounds like you all were able to have those really honest conversations because you had that foundation that you built in college where you trust each other, you know each other well, and so having those conversations doesn't feel like a huge, life shattering, friendship shattering thing, which is really awesome.
Kaitlin: And I think it's also like, defining a friendship is different now. You don't need to know every little, like, tiny detail, but you can pick up where the friendship is at any given second, any given moment. Because I know even if we're like 6 hours apart, she's always going to be there for me at the end of the day.
Mary Liston: Yeah, definitely. I love that. That's really awesome. So I guess that kind of speaks to how a little bit this next question about your friendship changing over time, besides that shift of like, you used to know my entire daily schedule and everything that happened at every moment, and now it's different. You still know the big things and I know they always be there, but it's not the same, like, day to day. What other changes have you seen in your friendship over time?
Ashton: We've been through so much together. I feel like we went from being young, growing up as young adults together in college to then being like, real life adulting and figuring out the landscape of that. We've shared friends, we've gained friends, we've lost friends together. Just anything you could ever think about, like going through life with a person. I feel like I've done it with Katie. Yeah. I don't know.
Kaitlin: I think there's so many things that have changed but have stayed the same, too. Like, when we do see each other, nothing has changed. I feel like it's not even like the matter of getting caught up. It's like, oh, we're just right where we were before.
Ashton: It's expensive, too. Like, you just can be your automatic self around that first. And there's no fakeness or putting on a facade. It's just raw and real. And to have that with someone's always just I feel like you need that necessity.
Kaitlin: Yes. I feel like my walls fall down too, with Ashton, where I work in human resources, so I feel like I'm a professional a lot of my day, and then with Ashin, I can drop it and be myself and as Ashley said, be vulnerable to it with each other.
Mary Liston: This is maybe a hard question to answer, and it's also off book, so I apologize in advance, but what do you think created that atmosphere within your friendship? I think that what you're describing is something that's so beautiful, and I think it was Ashton who said it's so important to have that with someone. But that doesn't happen in every relationship and in every friendship. So what would you say about your friendship that created that space for both of you?
Kaitlin: I think we've been through a lot together.
Ashton: We've seen each other at our worst and our best. They're not hiding anything.
Kaitlin: And I think we're always going to be like each other's. Hype mans at the worst and the best too. If I want to go to her and be like, I'm having an awful day, or I'm having a great day, she's going to be there for me.
Mary Liston: That's you. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for answering that, because I felt like when I was asking, I was like, is this an impossible question to answer? But it's not. I appreciate that. So I am notoriously, as you guys probably figured out when we were trying to schedule this, I am so bad at time zone. It's like not even funny. How do you guys find time and space to connect, especially in light of the fact that you are several time zones apart? What does that look like?
Ashton: I feel like it's really great because Katie gets up like, so early.
Kaitlin: I do. I wake up so early.
Ashton: It's still morning here and she's messaging me, I'm like, what are you doing? That's great. In the sense I work from home and I'll just pick up my phone and message her if she texts me or whatever. We also make it a point, like every month to do an actual FaceTime call, see the person in front of you because so much gets lost in text and all that stuff, written messages. So I always feel like because we know we in the past have had communication issues, to make that effort to actually speak one on one to each other, something that we need to do.
Kaitlin: It's like putting in, as I should say, the effort too, for it. We have had moments of our friendship where it's like, we didn't know anything about each other, and now it's like, no, we need to put in that effort. Ashton suggested we have at least one FaceTime a month around this time of the month, too. In the beginning of the month, we always try to FaceTime each other and just get caught up on each other's life. Anything gets ashton said it earlier, too, really well, and not taking things personal. If you don't hear from each other, that's okay too. And it's also the little things like sending each other a snapchat or replying to someone's Instagram story, or sending each other a meme. It's those little things that I think really make my day with Ashin.
Ashton: Yeah. Just to know the person's thinking about you, it makes a difference.
Mary Liston: Yeah, for sure. I like that. It's cool that you guys, even though you are lots of times apart, that you're able to find that overlap time because of your schedules. Like, that works out really nicely. That's really awesome. Very cool. I think you guys alluded to this a little bit earlier, but I'm interested to know what role does conflict play in your friendship?
Kaitlin: I think honestly, living together was easier.
Mary Liston: Really? Wow. I think you all might be the first people to ever say that.
Kaitlin: Yeah, really? Asha and I were good together. It's the distance. I mean, distance makes the heart grow fonder. But I think I said it earlier, I'm very extroverted. I want to talk. I want to be in your face and with her. And when we're together, I know when she needed some alone time or some time to decompress, where now I'm like, what's going on? What are you doing?
Ashton: Yes. And I'm like also like, Katie will call me out. I'm like, ****. If I am being passiveaggressive and stuff, we'd be in apartments together and stuff. And right away she'd be like, stop that right now. I don't have her here to do that anymore. So I'm usually the one to be silent and rude and not be in your face. So the fact that I don't have that with Katie anymore, it definitely does change things. And we've gotten better. She'll start doing it now every once in a while, like, hey, what's going on? But yeah, just like, getting through that change of not having the person right there. It's just weird after so many years, and now we've reached the point now where we've been long distance for the same amount of time as we were together. So I would like to think we've gotten better at it.
Kaitlin: Yeah. When I saw this question too, I was like, I can only think of one time in our lives, too, that Ash and I had real conflict, and it was because of moving to the apart. I think college days are all maybe a little bickers, but nothing major. At the end of the day, we might have had an argument or a bicker, but if something happened to one of us again, I just knew we were there for each other. I could go into a room, like crying and sit at that number bed like a cat to help me.
Mary Liston: Yeah, definitely. And I think it's so interesting because as you guys are describing this, my initial thought would have been when you live together, you have more conflict because you're just in each other's space more. But as you are sharing, what you're saying is making so much sense that when you are apart from someone, there's so much more room for error when it comes to interpreting what someone is saying. Figuring out what silence means doesn't just mean that person is busy, does it mean they're upset about something? Like, there's so much more room for miscommunication when that communication is mostly through texting, reading between the lines of what a silence means. It's really interesting that you mentioned that, and as you're saying that, it makes complete sense. I definitely get that. Yeah, that's very interesting.
Kaitlin: Completely. Yeah. You summed it up really well, I think, too. It doesn't help that if I'm texting something at like 06:00 P.m., ashley's asleep, right? Yeah. So, like, my contacts and then she's replying to me too, and she's in a different headset. Mine said, yeah, it's all different.
Ashton: Absolutely. Because I know we work well because we're very similar in the sense we're clean freaks and we like to cook. We worked great together in the house. It always came down to really growing our communication skills when we did separate and taking account, as Katie said, if she's messaging me at 06:00 p.m.. There, I'm not getting it until the morning. I'm like, I'm just waking up and that's the first thing I see. So it might take me a while to comprehend that I don't want to message you right when I wake up kind of thing.
Mary Liston: Right.
Ashton: Keeping things like that in mind.
Mary Liston: Yeah, definitely. And I think it's interesting too, because learning how to communicate with people is like a life skill that a lot of us have to learn outside of college because our friends are scattered all over the place. You all just seem to have a more extreme version of that because it was across continents but had to still figure out how do I navigate communicating with someone or to someone who's far away, which is really neat. Can you talk to me a little bit about what this friendship has taught you? I feel like we learn a lot from our friends and from our friendships. What has this specific friendship taught you or what have you learned?
Ashton: I guess Katie, she made me realize because she is an extrovert and I'm the introvert, she really got me to come out on my shell more. When we first met, I was the shyest, quietest person and stuff. And once I met her and how vibrant she is, and she really taught me how to people skills and talk to people and ask questions and stuff like this. So something like that, that means the world to me. And she's also just such a generous person, like, from little things like, oh, put this dress on tonight, it looks great on you, or, oh, I made some lasagna all the way to like, yeah, come over to Chicago. And every time I go, I have a place there at hers. And she's just so welcoming and will, like, just drop everything for her friends. Not a lot of people are like that in life. And so she's truly one of a kind and has taught me so much about myself and the world and just knowing that you can find people out there that are going to be with you through stick, and then I feel.
Kaitlin: Like the same, but like an opposite manner. On. I was always one to go, but Ashton taught me how to take a step back and be okay with not being on the go, but being okay with sitting down and reading a book and just enjoying time to myself. I think I am now more of an introvert because of like, she taught me so much of how to be with yourself and enjoy things like that. And also Ashley taught me to see the world. I left the country one single time before it was like 23, 24, and Ashton has done those things, and I'm like, I can do that too. She's taught me it's okay to take a leap of faith and go somewhere you don't know go somewhere you don't know anyone to, and like the vice versa with generous. I think you're the generous one. I'm like, she's living in Ireland, and she's like, yeah, come stay with me. We planned a trip to London, me and another friend, to go see a different friend that was living there. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to come to London too, because she's going to go out of her way to be there for us.
Mary Liston: That's really awesome.
Ashton: So sweet.
Mary Liston: I love that. Okay, this question is a little bit meta. It's also off book, but I've been trying it in some of these interviews, and it's been really fruitful. Is there a question or a topic about your friendship that I should be asking you about that I have not asked you about? Something that you're like, we need to talk about this, or I want to share this particular aspect of our friendship.
Ashton: I don't know if you're okay with it, Katie, but I feel like we should talk about denial.
Kaitlin: I agree. I was thinking the same thing.
Mary Liston: Okay, let's do it.
Kaitlin: I can start with it. Between my junior and senior year of college, this was actually inspired by Ashton because Ashton was doing study abroad. She was traveling tons. She always like, this inspired me to take that leap of faith. I went to college a half hour from my hometown. I didn't know anything. Everybody in my family went to college. Michigan State, like, Ashton taught me to take leaps of faith. So I applied for an internship through Michigan State and New York City because I knew I wanted to go to a city one day. And one day I became really good friends with two of my roommates on there that I like brought. They went to Michigan State as well. Their names are Denel and Claire. And we all came back to Michigan State. Ashton came and visited us in New York City. We all got along in our senior year at Michigan State. It was like, the four of us. We were really close, and ever since that year too, it's always been the four of us. When we went to London, it was the four of us. We have group chats. It's the four of us. During Cobid. We all do, like, calls together, the four of us. Deno moved to New York City after college, and we are still friends. And then she ended up moving to Chicago, actually, and living with me. So Dannell and I and Claire was not in Chicago at the time or what not to. And then Ashton obviously being her wonderful world traveler, world traveling on, but this past year, 2021, and I moved apart just to live on our own. We're getting older in Chicago, and we decided Copobig was kind of coming down. Ashton had visited us in Chicago a few times. We're like, let's go to Ireland and visit Ashton. So we did that this past November, and I got to visit Ashton. Honestly, it was like the best trip ever. Nothing went wrong. I feel like every time you go on a trip, something goes wrong. You lose your luggage, your plane is delayed, you just don't sleep well. But this was like the most amazing trip. Ashley invited us into her home. She showed us her city. It was just a really good trip with the three of us. It was right before Thanksgiving and then Thanksgiving weekend. Deanelle grew up in Michigan as well, and she was back home and coming back to Chicago in the car. She was in a car accident and passed away.
Mary Liston: Oh, my God.
Kaitlin: I think that's been like, yeah, I don't know where to go from there.
Ashton: It is something you never think is going to happen when you're in your 20s that's just you never think you're going to lose one of your closest friends. And I still, to this day, don't know how Katie be managed because again, I was all the way in Ireland. She's now like, just her in Chicago having to cope with this and support Denali's family as well and arrange things in Chicago, like going through her apartment and everything. And it killed me that I couldn't be there to help her. And I will forever consider Katie one of the strongest people I know because I know how hard it hit me, but I can only imagine how it was for her. And that really made us so appreciative for what we have with each other and, yeah, we're in it for the.
Kaitlin: Rest of our lives.
Mary Liston: Yeah, for sure.
Kaitlin: We went through all the break ups, the boyfriends, the partying, the bad grades, the good grades in college, but this really, this is something different. And I knew I didn't want to be around anybody at this time, but the only person I could like and wanted to talk to was like, Ashton during this. And I think ever since the notes passing that's when Ashton implemented, we're FaceTiming once a month minimum. I think it's not taken granted for friendships, too. That's a lot of it. And when Ashton originally asked me to be on this podcast with you guys, I was like, oh, hell no. I'm like, no, I don't like to listen to my own voice, but I think it's like looking back and I have so many pictures, videos and memories with all like, Ashton and denial. It's this podcast, too. It's like another thing that you get to add to the scrapbook of memories of friendship.
Mary Liston: First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss and thank you so much for being willing to share that with us. I can't imagine how difficult that must have been. And I understand what you are saying when you say you've been through everything together and that this is something that's going to continue to impact your friendship and the way that you view friendship moving forward. And so, seriously, I thank you so much for your willingness to share and I am so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine. Yeah. And I like that you described this as like. Something to add to the scrapbook of friendship because ultimately part of what I'm hoping that this does is it allows people to have a space to share those memories and to share that love and affection for one another and kind of like keep it as like a memento of like. This is our story. This is who we are. Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it a lot now.
Kaitlin: And thank you for giving us this space, too. Ashley and I are notorious for not being good at feeling well, she was.
Ashton: The exact opposite, so she, like, was such good glue. She really got it to bring out our emotional side because we don't even like to hug each other half the time. But now we do. We see each other and we have a giant hug. You know, she is so impactful on our lives and really for the better in every single way. I think it's reflects just where we're at today with our friendship so much.
Mary Liston: Yeah, certainly.
Kaitlin: And I don't think I would naturally say some of these things to Ashton in a conversation like, oh, you inspire me, Ashton, but this gives us the space to do that too.
Mary Liston: Yeah, well, in that theme and in that vein, these last two questions really are focused on celebrating friendship. And so, yeah, I'm curious to know, is there a moment or a conversation that you think of when you think of this friendship? Something that you feel like it's just like, yes, that's quintessential us or something of that nature? And if so, would you be willing to share that?
Ashton: This is going to sound dorky, but you mentioned it earlier, Katie, about going to the end of my bed and being a cat. That's always ingrained in me, and we still do it whenever we see each other, we plop down at the end of the bed like a cat. You don't even have to say anything. It's just being there. And I don't know that sense of like, you're not alone, your best friends are here, and then you'll chat and laugh. But I feel like when I think about our friendship, I have that image of you being at the end of my bed and that's just talking about random stuff or whatever.
Kaitlin: Yeah, I think it's like just existing together, living our life, but together. When I saw this question, I was like, there's nothing I can pin down. Put it there. But yeah, just that feeling. I guess it's an unknown feeling you feel with each other.
Mary Liston: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally get that. There's no way to describe it, but just this feeling of security. Like when you're with someone who's just like your best friend, your close friend, you're just like, I'm good, we're good, everything's good. It's going to be fine, it's going to be okay. And then my last question is, can you share what you admire most about your friend? Or something that you just admire a lot about your friend?
Kaitlin: I think I mentioned earlier, too, action has always been the one to follow her dreams. I remember going into freshman year at Michigan State, ashen had all these pictures of Europe and London and all of this. I'm like, who is this girl? Think she is? You are from a small town in Michigan, just like me, but it has made. Me realize that you can do something that you set your mind to, and Ashton has always been that way. Ashton loves dance. I always loved going to see her dance recital. She was a dance minor, and it was never something that I, like, even thought about incorporating in college. Life is like, one of your passions, too, and I always admired that. Like, Ash danced all four years at Michigan State, and she went and followed her dreams and she makes me do the same thing. I feel like a better person in my life because of Ashton. Like, I've become better because of her impact.
Ashton: That's so sweet. I know I've mentioned it already. Katie is just so generous of a person, and I think the main thing she's taught me is, just don't be so selfish. Think about other people. Like, the world doesn't revolve around you. You need to really consider other people's feelings and how they might interpret things. And at the same time, I love to overthink things, and Katie's been like, you don't stop over thinking. It's clear. Like, just calm down, take a breath and just focus it's right in front of you kind of thing. So she's always been such a huge support blanket almost for me, just having that person there who's going to talk you through the things and be your biggest supporter and cheerleader, she's just I can't imagine my life about her.
Kaitlin: No, I can't either, without you.
Mary Liston: Well, thank you guys so much for coming on the podcast. First of all, thank you. Thank you and for all your help with coordinating times because time zones are hard. And thank you for just your willingness to share. It's been really lovely to hear your story. And yes, thank you for your vulnerability and your openness. I really appreciate it a lot. I cannot tell you how moved I was by Caitlin and Ashton's story. I am so thankful for their vulnerability and for their willingness to share all of the different things that they've been through together. It was really eye opening and wonderful to hear how much they support one another and appreciate one another and are there for one another no matter what life throws at them. And so I was really thankful to them for being on the show and for their willingness to share. What's a Podcast Between Friends drops new episodes on Fridays, and for the next little bit, we're going to be dropping episodes every other Friday instead of our normal weekly schedule. Once again, the school year is back in full swing and I'm still working to kind of get my school year schedule figured out. So until that is completely sorted, we are going to be doing episodes every other Friday. You can find our episodes wherever you get your podcasts and you can connect with us on social media at what's a Podcast Between Friends? On Instagram. You can also email the show at what's a podcast between friends@gmail.com. Please reach out and recommend your friends for the show. Recommend yourself for the show. Tell us what you're loving. Tell us what you want to hear more of. We really are interested in making a podcast for you and so if what we're doing isn't working or it could be better, please reach out and let us know. You can also rate and review us on Apple Podcasts spotify. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, do that. It helps people find the show. It also helps us know what we need to do better. Thank you so much for listening and I look forward to seeing you in two weeks. Until then, have a great rest of your week and enjoy your weekend. Bye friends.